Played in the ESTFA National League the other week, and have to say, it was a great success.

I could only manage one day ( Sunday ), but for many ( Division 1 & 2 ), 9-11 games were played over 2 days, which represents brilliant value. At a top venue ( British Gas Academy Centre, Leicester ) over 60 players ( I believe ) attended the gig. For a mere £8 entry fee, players hungry for Subbuteo action, feasted on 15 minute each way contests, using top equipment. I experienced the highest level of sportsmanship in all my games, and had a really good laugh ( seeing lots of new faces, and getting to know many top personalities ).

Have to say, also, for all the comments made about the long slippy slidey game, the top players seem equally adept at curling there ridiculed bases when it's called for!

Highly recommended.

http://estfacom.webs.com/thenationalleague.htm

A very respectable 4th spot Steve, very well done! That first round game was a bit of a goal fest!

Thanks, Adam



Yes, I was 7-0 up at half-time, so something drastic needed to be done, as Matthew is only a young lad. I scored two goals that I fully expected him to save. He had a nice short game though, and almost scored in the opening 20 seconds!

All the games were close and enjoyable, but ultimately, I got squeezed out of the contest for 1,2,3 in a shoot out. So then contested 4,5,6 in another group.

On the plus side, I scored in all my games, and didn't lose a match. So didn't embarrass myself. Will definitely go again.

Edited

I had planned on going to that event but then realised it was the same weekend as my wife's birthday weekend so it turned out to be a no no! Maybe next year.

We'll have to get you to come over to ours at some point for a game or 3, I really enjoyed the game we played against each other in the summer.

Yes, it would be good to visit the Worcester massive!

Have finally caught up with Mark Smith at Wycombe this last week, and I think we are set to revive the Cressex vibe.



Maybe a Wycombe v Worcester fixture can be arranged?

I've read the blog on the website....great news! I'll try and get to the WC again in the summer if I can once again blag a lift from Bill.

An inter - club would be good fun; we (WRP7) enjoy having teams come over and give us a game. Inter clubs against NETFA, Weoley Castle and The Pumas have all been enjoyable days, so a game against the Wycombe posse would be great! I'll speak to Tim (our club chairman) to see what he thinks about it........possibly get it arranged later in the year (2012) as our fixtures are pretty much set for the rest of this season. We'd be happy to host it, we have 5 tables and the pub we play in has good beer / food and a friendly atmosphere.

love that post Steve

"I'm no longer bothered what other people think of me or what I do. I find that when you are bare faced about it, and tell them you play with a smile ( not taking yourself or it too seriously ), and that you LOVE IT, any intended ridicule dies a natural death, and is quickly replaced by intrigue."



Same for me, at first people laugh, but when they see I am passionate about playing it and I really enjoy myself, they start asking questions. Frequently at my workplace I am asked how I am getting on in my league by my colleagues. They are geniunely interested, not just taking the mick, which is great.

Personally I don't mind what code I play to or what equipment I use, as long as I can flick to kick its all good! We run both a FISTF and Advanced Rules league now at WRP7....the FISTF is in its 7th season, the Advanced (we refer to it as "retro") will start its second season in March / April next year. There's definately room for both codes (appreciate this is an Oldsubbuteo forum btw!)and I fully appreciate folk have their own preference. I'm just one of the lucky few that enjoys playing both. As long as I continue to enjoy myself, I'll keep on playing the game, to whichever code!



Now enough's enough about which code is better; the majority of folk on this forum love "oldsubbuteo". Let's leave it at that as this is what this forum is intended for and have no more "code bashing". It's getting boring to read. Bring back the fun and quirky stuff!

Blimey... Where did all that come from

Seriously, I don't know why anyone thinks there is any 'bashing of codes'.

And to be honest, it's only the English that think it's Geeky. In Europe it's seen as Retro Cool.

As for it being a 'Sport'... Apparantly at FISTF events everyone should be wearing Sports Clothing... Or so I was told by the Puma lads. Have you seen the size of the majority of Table Soccer players? Most FISTF Tournements look like Weightwatchers have run riot in JJB Sports

There are very few Table Soccer players that play Oldsubbuteo as well. I know of only a handfull. In the past me and Ralph tried to advertise Oldsubbuteo on the 'Subbuteo Players' forum. We were pretty much shot down in flames. Certain people didn't like the fact that Oldsubbuteo was growing and that FISTF was dwindling. The ESTFA were very good, and all inclusive, but the general consensus amongst certain forum members, was that we were the poor second cousins.

I suppose it's all down to opinions in the long run and personal preference.

Personally, I don't think you can call Table Soccer, Subbuteo. It's like calling Draughts, Chess. Both games are played on the same surface, but different pieces are used, with different rules.

Table Soccer bases are designed specifically to do pretty much the opposite to Subbuteo bases. The Table Soccer GK is longer, bigger, and also used as a Branding Iron when not used in play

When FISTF was set up, it was done to get away from Subbuteo. They wanted to be their own body, run their own Tournements, and produce their own figures. The guy who invented the flat bases and different figures, made the rules to suit his business plan. Somehow...it worked and he payed 'Top' players to use his products. People saw these players using them, and fell under the spell that they had to have them. The bases are designed to raise the ball easily and glide straight. If you can flick straight and have feel, then the bases pretty much do everything for you. It's taken a lot of skill away in many respects. Is it progress? Personally I don't think so. In the same way, as Golf Club Technology, Tennis Racket Technology, Football Technology etc have made those games easier. A lot of skill is lost...and it becomes monotonous and boring.

Oldsubbuteo have stuck with Subbuteo designed bases and figures, not just because of nostalgia, but because they behave and do exactly as the game was invented to be played. The game was invented to be a 'Curling' game played on Baize or Cotton, so that the bases could 'Grip' the material, and be flicked in a controlled manner.

As for attracting a whole new generation of kids... I think both codes are. In Italy kids are playing Oldsubbuteo and the Fabbri range that is sold weekly has 'Subbuteo Bases and figures'. Not a flat base to be seen. It's only over here that people don't seem to get it.

I hope this doesn't come across in the wrong way. It's all said in good faith. But i'm sure if we played Draughts, we wouldn't go on a Chess forum and talk about Draughts. In the same way, we wouldn't go on the FISTF Table Soccer forum and talk about Oldsubbuteo. It just causes confusion. Which tbh, is the biggest downfall for recruiting new players in this Country. Many people look into getting back into playing Subbuteo from when they remembered it as kids, and get confused, as it no longer appears to look like they remember it. They then delve a little further, and it becomes a whole new can of worms.

That's why i think we shouldn't embrace 'Table Football'. If people want to play 'Table Football'...then let them play Table Football. They should have their own forums and own websites.

In the same way, if people want to play Subbuteo, they should play Subbuteo. If a newcomer googles 'Subbuteo' they should find Forums that are purely Subbuteo and don't include 'Table Soccer'. They should recognise what they are looking for and not be put off. Mixing the two codes is detrimental imho. It confuses many people, and more often than not they give up. I've heard people say this first hand on many occasions.

There are too many Codes...

So on reflection... Table Soccer is One thing, Subbuteo another. Both are enjoyed by different people, and some enjoy both, but imho, we can't compare, as they are two completely seperate games.

I hope you guys get the gist of this post. No offence is intended, and it is not a knock at 'Table Football'. Each to their own, but this is an Oldsubbuteo forum after all.

fully respect your opinions matey I've known for a while now what they are and take your post in the way its meant.

Did you know that if you turn a subbuteo goalkeeper upside down it has near enough the same dimension as the modern "cattle prod" goalkeeper? The arms on the modern are the same width as the base of the subbuteo GK, and vice versa with the base or the modern and the arms of the subbuteo GK.



It makes no difference to me, I'm terrible at saving shots with whichever one I use!

yeah I know bud

Here's mine

http://s852.photobucket.com/albums/ab89/worcestersubbuteo/?action=view¤t=DSC05487.jpg

Height wise there is a different of about 3 - 5mm depending on how far the original style GK is diving (this varies loads have you noticed?!?) but width wise they are pretty much the same. "hover in the Air like Casper the Ghost" aye that they do I prefer to think of mine as Superman, but he's more like Superted I know where you're coming from with this comment though and again agree with you, the keeper should be touching the ground.

I'm not going to hark on about this anymore as this is not the forum to do so; its an oldsubbuteo forum and I feel like a bit of an idiot talking out of place about this subject on this forum.

"destroyed Subbuteo as we know it" I couldn't agree with you more. If it were still in the high street shops people would be playing it more....here's hoping

It's purely a personal preference Steve...

I just don't like the game, in the same way as i don't like Lime Pickle...I've tried it numerous times, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

If you or anyone else like both games, then fine. But there are many who don't like both games.

Each to their own of course...But it is purely a personal Preference. If i've said anything negative, then it is just my thoughts...not the Oldsubbuteo Community's. Everyone can make up their own mind, and many have, which i would implore anyone to do, rather than base it on what I, or anyone else says.

By trying to make people like both games, what are we trying to achieve?

It is purely personal preference...surely?

Like i said, I don't like the game, and i highlighted a few reasons why. They are purely my thoughts. No one has to like them. In fact, I think it's great that you like both types. That way you are getting twice as much pleasure.

We will just have to agree to disagree as to whether both games are beautiful. In my eye's table football is Subbuteo's Ugly second cousin.

And, I'll alway's love you mate...you know that. This is purely a personal preference...not Political.

Cool.

Has anyone from the ESTFA tournament coughed up for the damage they caused at the venue yet ? see thats what happens when you take the game too seriously some idiot will go too far and spoil it for the majority...

My main reason for disliking the modern game is to be honest the way a lot of the players look down on those of us who play the traditional way they perceive their game and equipment to be superior which is nonsense..any one of them is more than welcome at my house any time to test their ability on the baize with old style bases of their choice... FF ball..NN goals etc...

Some of the FISTF boys (present company excepted) have some very strange perceptions about how we play..I like to win or at least avoid defeat but I also enjoy talking through a game as has been mentioned above and most importantly having a laugh..one defeat to Ian and three really entertaining draws at Pumas one of the games involving the now legendary cardboard goals another starring Dutch goalkeeping hero Edwin Van der Boing these are the games you look back on and smile at...and that is exactly how it should be

Same when I think back on nearly 40 years now of playing the game with my Dad and his mate...silly mistakes..ridiculous goals...a record in penalty shoot outs to rival England's .. I never quite got over the 1984 Europa Trophy defeat I can still see it now totally outplayed him with my Celtic in their All Green away strip against the boing boing Baggies...I let in a last minute equaliser in extra time lost on penalties and didn't speak for a week

playing against my Dads mate with the flats when I was about 17 or so I beat him 7-2 he demanded a rematch I won 8-1

Great stuff, Ralph. Love it!

I don't think the culprit responsible for the damage at the Leicester venue was a popular fella even before the incident! He's not very highly thought of, and so it would probably be unfair to make him the standard barer for the modern game.

I'm going to keep in mind ...

This kind of behaviour is a human being thing, not a game thing. The game played no part in it. Although every game has 'em, unfortunately, it would seem.

Possibly but when you bring in an overtly competitive nature to anything you would tend unfortunately to attract a certain type of person ?

I'm not wanting to develop this into an anti FISTF/ESTFA debate my view is well documented I agree with everything Ian has already said on the topic like I said present company and a couple of others excepted its generally the attitude of the players that I find most depressing....

Subbuteo has played a big part in my life ..I started playing in oohh about 1972/3 I would guess and probably properly from about 74/5 I don't need some smart arsed FISTF player patting me on the head and telling me my teams are okay for playing with my mates..

Anyway luckily for me I still get to play against my Dad (and he is a feckin good flats player!) and my sons so I'm alright for opponents in between tournaments and I suspect like my solo playing colleague in Andover my League takes priority in any case..in fact on reflection it has become of course much more important than real football

Agreed, Ralph.

You only have to look at football, and the number of cheats there are in the game these days. Even in light of the video evidence and public awareness (such is the world we live in, and it's lack of integrity ), they're still not challenged about it after the event either.